Welcome, friends of frogs and shrimp!
To celebrate 4/20, we handed the keys to the pond to legendary world-builder Ghostshrimp. He is best known as the lead background designer for the hit animation series, Adventure Time, as well as his work on shows like The Midnight Gospel, and for the multiverses he's crafted for musicians like MF DOOM and Flying Lotus. He’s worked with Cartoon Network, Netflix, Disney, and Nickelodeon, and his recent work includes two best-selling coloring books Hollow Earth, and The Lost Forest, and a Grammy Nominated Gravity Falls soundtrack album cover; his creativity is truly unlimited!
In this exclusive Interview, Ghostshrimp takes us from the forests of his home in Vermont and into the world behind the design for our spring collaboration—Wonderland, but Weirder, and answers our questions about cannabis, art, parenthood, and the creative process as he shares about his legacy as a widely recognized background designer, illustrator, and animator.
Plus: learn the real life inspiration for the design of Finn & Jake’s Treehouse from Adventure Time, Ghostshrimp’s favorite 90’s hip-hop, prompts he provides to students of his workshops, advice on overcoming artists' block, and more!
Disclaimer: The following interview was transcribed from audio and has been lightly edited for clarity and brevity.
Hello Cycling Frog community!
It's your boy Ghostshrimp, here to help you celebrate 4/20 with these wonderful new products from our friends at Cycling Frog!
I got to work with them to create the imagery, and it was so much fun. It was a long time coming, and it was a great collaboration. I can't wait for y'all to get these products in your hands and get them in your brains, because it's all about those vibes and that creativity, y'all!
And that's exactly what we're going to talk about. [I’m going to answer some] questions about the project, about art, and we're just gonna jump in.
Q: Your art feels so alive, with lots happening in every corner. What was the specific inspiration for the world you built around the Cycling Frog in these designs?
With any good project, it came with a great brief, and a package of gummies and drinks. I say “my brain is like a creative blender, and I’m gonna put in all the ingredients.” In this case, it was the vibes of the product, and then putting on some nice music, and really vibing, tuning out, and turning my brain off in order to channel the creativity of the universe from the Art Gods into the drawings.
It's more of a matter of me stepping away and turning my brain off, in order to let it flow through. Much like a radio tuning into the right frequency, *Bam* it just kind of happens and comes out. This project was a more contained design because we can only get so complicated on a package, but it was really fun and has a fancy-free look, which is great!
Q: When you took our 'Cycling Frog' into your world, you added some details like the hat, shades, headphones, and backpack. Did any of those elements pull from your own life or a narrative you had in mind?
Yes, the Cycling frog logo [already] has a great mythology, history, and lore around it which I absolutely connected with and loved. I actually have my own lore with frogs. I had an epic fish tank and terrarium when I was in college and working at Petco. This mixes in with the Ghostshrimp origin story, as this is the same tank in which the Ghost Shrimp [my namesake] existed in, and I also had White Australian Tree Frogs in there, so [this project] connects with my own frog mythology.
Besides drawing, riding mountain bikes is just about my favorite thing in the world! I didn't have a car until I was 25 years old. I rode bikes everywhere through New England, and through L.A when I was working for Cartoon Network. I am the Bike Riding Bandit! I absolutely love it. There's so much overlap!
The vibe is about going on a day out in the spring, where everything's exploding. We're going into that time of the year, especially here in Vermont. We're waiting for the spring to just explode and the green to come in everywhere, and that's really the vibe that I was going for with this series.
For example, the backpack; you're packing your goodies for a nice trip, you know you're out for the day, you don't know what it might bring. You got your headphones on, you got your tunes and you’re vibing. You got some fat smokables, and the frogs and aliens, they're vibing out, harmonizing, and doing their own thing on a nice carefree afternoon with that fresh spring vibe. [I’m] definitely coming from that 90’s “backpack, hip-hop” mentality, where you're just out and about and doing your thing with the sketchbook in the backpack. I go everywhere with a sketchbook, drawing, vibing and smoking.
Q: Your Hollow Earth and Lost Forest coloring books have been incredibly well-received. How do you think the act of coloring, specifically for adults, changes the way people connect with your art?
That's a great question. Kids are very quick to pick up art supplies and jam out and draw, and at a certain point, some people get self-conscious and they stop doing that. I feel like coloring is easier since you don't have to create from scratch. You can jump in there and just add to it. It's a collaborative act. I've gotten you halfway there, I'm coming in with a cool drawing for you *bang* and then you can just take it from there. And you can just grab those drinkables, grab those edibles, get in that zone. Get in that warm, fuzzy, cozy zone and see how the colors talk to you.
Color is all about harmony, color is all about vibe, and color can be about communication, color can be about storytelling, depending on how you use it. It's just so fun and I think it's a little bit less intimidating for some adults to jump in and color rather than to do a whole drawing from scratch. Although, I sneakily included prompts in each [coloring] book that get you to hopefully draw your own drawing, trying to nudge people back into that creative zone.
All human beings are completely equipped to be world-class artists. It's really just a matter of “practice makes progress”, and all I have done is just practice my whole life, so that's why I'm halfway decent at it. In fact, I'm really just getting started, so anybody can jump in and do art at any point, that's what's great about it. A wonderful thing about art is that amateur art is often really incredible, because art is really about being uninhibited.
All human beings are completely equipped to be world-class artists. It's really just a matter of “practice makes progress”
A lot of times, professional artists get so tight and inhibited. There's so much expectation and responsibility associated with their job, that they actually stop making art for joyful purposes. Then it really becomes something else. It's all about having fun and creating for the joy of exploration and letting it flow. That's all I'm ever doing. I like to not have much of an idea about where I'm going. I like to explore and see where it takes me, see what the piece wants me to do, what the art gods have in store, because it's always amazing. The more you can let go, the more fun and surprises you can have when you get to the end Go “Wow. I didn't expect that!” It's all about those breakthroughs. Those unexpected moments. That's really what's fun about art.
Q: You’re well known for your originality. When you’re turning a prompt or a simple idea into a fully realized character, what is the first step of that evolution?
Grabbing the sketchbook, jumping in, letting it flow, and seeing where it takes me. Certainly associating with things that come to mind, but often the first ideas you have at the top of mind are more cliche, more of the tropes we’re familiar with, which you certainly can use, but it's always more fun to take them a little bit deeper.
I like to do what I call “getting the bad ideas out first”. There’s no such thing as “bad ideas”, especially in art, but just getting the stuff off the top, out of the way, clears the path for you to get down deeper and see what's really under there. Now that you've taken away the topsoil, you're digging down, you're finding fossils, you're finding a buried treasure. Look for those unexpected breakthroughs, ideas, associations, the more personal the better.
Now that you've taken away the topsoil, you're digging down, you're finding fossils, you're finding a buried treasure.
Talk to that personal mythology, your dreams, and your experiences. So much of what it feels like to me is nostalgia. So much about making art is connecting with what it felt like growing up, and communicating my recurring dream worlds and childhood dreams. When you don't think you know everything and everything is mysterious and intriguing. I'm always trying to create mystery and intrigue with my art, to make you feel like a kid again, like you're seeing something with fresh eyes.
I think all great artists are showing you their unique point of view, whether it's an MC Escher, Salvador Dali, Mike Mignola, or Mobius, no matter who it is. Whether you're looking at Adventure Time, Steven Universe, or the world of Miyazaki, it's a glimpse into how these artists are showing you their version of the world, and the more magical the better because it reminds you just how magical Mother Nature really is.
There's no greater artist than Mother Nature. I live in the forest here in Vermont, and I could not begin to touch what is in one square foot of the forest out there, the mushrooms, insects, moss, lichen, plants, the animals, the snow, the tracks in the mud, and then you dig down and there's even more. Mother Nature is the biggest inspiration of all, and obviously we're part of that. It's a big conversation and cycle of inspiration.
It's [also] really fun to mix your personal mythology with cultural mythology, because I think the more personal you make it, the more accessible it is, but it's also fun to play with tropes, like aliens and bigfoot. Those tropes of mythology go through our history, and have always been there. They connect to the deep shared human experience.
Q: Do you ever give your characters a 'secret' internal voice or a backstory that never makes it into the finished product, but helps you draw them more authentically?
Yes. [I believe] Your greatest fears are great. Your greatest dreams are great. All the things that have happened to you, I think [for me], all that all goes into these characters. Take this Cycling Frog label, you can easily catch me riding around looking like the frog with the backpack on with the headphones on with the fat doink between the lips. There've been many great days spent like that. I definitely pull from that, and then I have fun filling it in with those other details and creating a narrative, but I always love to have layers of storytelling in the pieces.
All the best work has layers, It's not one-dimensional, It's multi-dimensional. There's different story lines going on. In these labels everything's pretty harmonious, but [I can imagine] some deeper narratives going on. Maybe some conflict is happening, some nefarious elements are also lurking around there, trying to harsh the vibe. There's a little battle going on, a little tension. It’s really fun to create those kinds of conflicting storylines. Human beings love drama. If you can sprinkle drama in, people are always gonna pick up on it and respond to it.
Going into the [concept of the] “Backstory”, the story beyond the story, when I was creating the world for Adventure Time, you would get the animatic, and watch to see what the episode was gonna be. You're figuring out what these locations are going to look like, and what the storytelling in the background is going to be. The first layer is reinforcing what's going on in the story, but I always love to take it deeper than that, [creating] something that is so unexpected, that no one else could ever put it in there.
This comes back to my goal of always wanting to be a unique artist, to have an individual voice, and to have my stuff be recognizable when you see it, whether you know it or not. I want people to say “Hey, that looks familiar”, “Oh my gosh, that's the guy that did the MF Doom cover!”, “Hey, that's a guy that did the Raw trays!”, “Hey, that's the guy that did the Cycling Frog!”, “Hey, that's the guy that did Adventure Time!”, “Hey, that's the guy that did the Gravity Falls soundtrack cover!”, you start to connect the dots and go, “Whoa, that's pretty neat!” and it all starts to feel like they're happening in the same world, because in my mind, they are. This is my world and it is all very much happening.
One of the things people truly love and respond to about Adventure Time, is that the more you look into the background, the more weird things you see in it speaks to this unknown history. To me, I don't want to know or understand what it all is. If I understand what I'm working on, [then] I need to go deeper. I need to take you into those deeper layers because it’s the stuff that makes you feel something you don't quite understand, and that can't be figured out, because just like life and existence, It's an unsolvable equation. It's an unfathomable puzzle that's always evolving. To have your artwork mirror that, I think, is the essence of great art. It taps you into that mystery and intrigue that is life, and reminds you that nothing is normal, which is the most exciting thing in the world. Imagine if life was normal. How boring would that be, right?!
I need to take you into those deeper layers because it’s the stuff that makes you feel something you don't quite understand, and that can't be figured out, because just like life and existence, It's an unsolvable equation. It's an unfathomable puzzle that's always evolving.
Q: What is something, whether a ritual, an environment, or a mindset, that you consider absolutely foundational to your creative process?
Number one, definitely this wonderful plant [cannabis]. Since I started drawing seriously in my high school years, I've been a daily user, and it's always really pulled me into that deeper creative word.
I was in a place and a space [during] that time where I was in a lot of conflict, I was in turmoil with my life in high school, I did not fit. I was in conflict with my parents, with the system, and with the police. When I was introduced [and] started listening to the plant, it told me that I could create my own reality and that I didn't have to settle for this “normal reality” with all these rules. [That] In fact, I could create my own reality with my own rules and really transcend into whatever I wanted, and voila, it worked.
I'm also very ADHD, so having another input to take my conscious mind away has always been huge, like listening to music. I grew up in the 90s hip-hop era, so [I listen to] MF Doom, Wu-Tang, Biggie, A Tribe Called Quest, De La Soul, all the good stuff, [as well as] all the great music that's come since, as well as podcasts. It’s so much, it’s almost an information overload. You have to try to not overload yourself with information these days, but there's so much great inspiration there, [and] I love to tap into that.
I’ve always been very routine oriented. I get up at 6am every day. I like to get drawing by about 7 A.M. I'll take breaks every three or so hours to get up, get outside and do a walk in the woods, get another smoke, edible or drinkable in, come back reset and, *bang*, go for another dip into the infinity pool to explore and see what we can find.
I [also] take a 20-30m nap after lunch every day. I started doing this in college. I don't always sleep, but it’s a very big part of my routine and gives my brain a little refresh. It turns the afternoon into a second morning and [gives me] a whole new creative session. Getting in two or three, three-hour blocks in a day of creation is nice, and with these little breaks in between [created a] chill vibe.
I don't have a big fancy studio and use my bedroom. Most of my life I've worked at a kitchen table, or the table of my bedroom. I'm a very low-key, very low overhead, simple dude. I definitely can't have a lot of Action and chaos around me when I'm creating. When I worked at Cartoon Network, I would mostly work from my apartment in North Hollywood, three miles down the road from the Burbank studio, and I would ride my bike in once a week and pick up and drop off my backgrounds for the week, hang with all the homies on the show and and go out to lunch. But for me to really create, I really have to disappear. I have to kind of forget that I exist. The whole idea [is] turning my conscious brain off, distracting my conscious brain, getting deep into that creative flow state, into the creative void, into that conversation with the universe and that infinite cycle of inspiration.
I also like getting eight hours of sleep. These things all sound kind of boring and fundamental, but all the wildness comes from these boring fundamentals, and trust me, I like to wild out and to go on adventures and have parties. I’ve done plenty of that, too. I’ve broken every bone in my feet and both my hands, all when I was a teenager. I love to go on wild romps. We [still] have wild 30-person campouts here in the ‘Ghostshrimp National Forest’. I party, but when you are running a business, you [also] have to have a professional mode.
Even though most people wouldn't think waking up and smoking weed all day is professional, for me, it’s extremely professional, and I'm very proud of that. In the beginning my dream was “Man, if I could smoke weed every day, draw some comics and album covers, and pay my bills that way,” that was my wildest dream, and boy, I’ve gotten way farther than that.
Q: You’ve been vocal about being a fan of the brand. How does Cycling Frog fit into your creative flow, and do you have a personal favorite flavor or potency that hits the 'sweet spot' for a long drawing session?
Well, my tolerance is way too high, so the 50mg cans are excellent. They put you in a great flow state. I joke around that I basically smoke until I couldn't possibly write an email, and then I'm ready to draw. When all your linear and logical capabilities have been lost and gone, and you're just completely in the divergent flow state.
It can’t be accessed if you want it, you have to have the right inputs, some hip-hop that's taking you away, [like] some RJD2, DJ Shadow, De La Soul’s ‘Stakes Is High’, A Tribe Called Quest’s ‘Beats, Rhymes, and Life’. Get those 90s Vibes going, and I’m there.
As for favorite flavors. I'm so excited about [our upcoming release], but I think, The 50mg raspberry lemonade and Iced Tea Lemonade are banging, and all the gummies have been so good. I've had a lot of different products before, and I actually reached out to Cycling Frog to get in touch with them because I felt like the flavors and the products were so good, and they're so affordable. I really appreciate that. With the whole process of legalization, things have become so expensive. I really appreciate that Cycling Frog cares about the affordability of their product, the quality of their product. As a lifelong [cannabis] enthusiast, those things really make a difference. I knew we were on the same wavelength. They really care, you guys care. We care, I care. We all care together.
Q: Your art often depicts characters enjoying a joint or ripping a bong as a natural, social activity. What would you say to someone who still holds onto the old, negative stereotypes of cannabis?
I would say that is government propaganda, big corporate propaganda, stop being fooled by it. This plant has been on this planet longer than us, it's been here as our caretaker, shepherd, and collaborator. I guarantee it has spoken to all the greatest minds in our civilization and helped them connect with that plant intelligence, connect with all the other dimensions, and transcend the limitations of a mind that is not imbibing.
There is a magical alchemy that's happening there. If it's not for you, no problem, no worries with that, but, [you have to recognize] It is a flower, and it can be enjoyed by everybody. Whether it's recreational, to make art, or to just kick back and enjoy music or socialize easier.
I think, especially when you put it on the same shelf as alcohol, it's a much healthier, productive, less destructive choice. The stereotypes about people being lazy, and it leading to other drugs and crimes, that really is the reverse of the truth and has much more to do with other substances, not our beautiful flowers. Don't tread on this flower, because it doesn't deserve it. It deserves so much more credit that it's given. I think this flower is gonna “get its flowers” in the coming years.
Q: How do you balance being an advocate for responsible adult cannabis use with your legacy as a world designer for iconic children’s animation?
I certainly wouldn't recommend it to kids. I have kids, one is a 14-year old and I do not recommend that he does it. I recommend that you wait until you are of an adult age, even though I know many of us in the olden days, tried it at a younger time.
I do think that it's beneficial to everybody when they're of the right age, so I have no problem being an advocate of it. It truly saved my life. I might not be here at all, and certainly not be what I am, and what I'm doing without it. There's absolutely zero chance. It’s my biggest supporter, my biggest collaborator, my biggest inspiration. I could not stress enough how much this plant has done for me. I owe absolutely everything to it, and I would advocate for it, no matter what.
But, yes, wait till you're of the age of adulthood and to do it, and then feel how it works for you. Don't do it based on how other people use it. Find the way it works for you. Find when it works for you, when it feels like it's creating the atmosphere and the vibe and the results you like, and always stay safe with it. You can find yourself in unsafe situations with anything; we've all been way too blasted in a place we didn't need to be that blasted and know what that feels like, so keep it chill, keep it cool. There’s nothing wrong with a little moderation.
Q: Many of our fans are also parents. How has being a father influenced your creative output? Do you ever use your kids as a 'litmus test' for new designs or ask them for feedback on a world you’re building?
Yes. My kids are very creative and artistic. They are always looking over my shoulders to see what I'm working on, and I'm always looking over to their shoulders to see what they're working on. They both love to draw, so it's a family business. My wife is also an artist, Athena Bandit, she does jewelry, you can check her out. We're all just sitting here in the woods of the Northeast Kingdom of Vermont, being creative and making art, and here's nothing better than that. Again, I think that’s what all humans are geared towards, that's our superpower is imagination and creativity. Human Endeavor is all based on that, and all comes from that. We’re more adaptable and flexible than almost any other creature that we can observe on this planet, and that's not for nothing. Tap into that and use that, and follow your Intuition. Follow your inspiration. Follow your creativity, because if you don't love it, And it's not fun, it's just not worth your time.
our superpower is imagination and creativity. Human Endeavor is all based on that, and all comes from that. We’re more adaptable and flexible than almost any other creature that we can observe on this planet, and that's not for nothing.
That's the most important thing that we're always trying to impress upon the kids; there's no point in doing things that you're not interested in. We don't make them go to school, they both opted out of school at this point and are homeschooled. They're doing their art thing, sports, hanging with friends and all the best parts, and none of that boring government school stuff. That's what we aim to do is create that dream life for everybody, advocate that dream life for everybody and create your own reality, y'all. It's a lot better than the “stock reality”, the “template reality”, the “reality 101” that we're all put in as a test to see who wants to go somewhere else.
Q: What advice would you give to an artist or creator who is currently struggling with a creative block or feels like they’ve lost their spark? Any drawing prompts for our fans enjoying this collaboration to try out in their sketch book?
The sketchbook is always a great place, it takes the pressure off. It's very freeing. Just stop thinking. I think artist block comes from thinking. Sometimes I think the less you think, the better. Sometimes in life, and definitely in art. You probably brought expectations, you’re probably worried if it's good enough, but like I said, don't be afraid to get the bad ideas out. Don't be afraid to make bad art, because that's how it all starts. My sketchbook is just chicken scratch and notes and ideas, it’s nothing worth showing anybody, It's not cool. You would not think it was a professional artist's sketchbook.
Ultimately, be uninhibited. I think every artist sits down and says “what is the thing that I want to create the most? What is most personal to me?”
I do a workshop, and when we get into prompts, I love to start with that idea of personal mythology. Diving into your dream worlds, your recurring dreams, things that you're obsessed with, your nightmare worlds, things that you're scared of, things that you're terrified of. What would you never want to happen? Where would you never want to be? Where would you want to be the most? What would be the coolest thing you could imagine?
When I was designing the treehouse for Finn and Jake, I thought “ultimate childhood tree house, what would that be? What would it look like? What would it feel like?”. At that time, I was living in a cabin that I was building with my dog in the woods, and so that was perfect to go from that scenario to designing the treehouse.
So yeah, putting yourself back into that childhood mindset, just have fun and explore. I always remind people to have fun at the desk, It's not meant to be a chore. It's meant to be fun just like when you drew for when you were a kid. When you're bored, just stop. If you want to do it more, it's like anything you have to build up the practice, right? You can't sit down and meditate for five hours on the first try, maybe not ever. You can't play a full basketball game if you've never played before, you have to build up to things. Practice makes progress so just keep going towards what's fun. And if it's not fun, then don't do it. Just keep gravitating towards what you're really interested in, what's most fun to you? What do you love? All kids start copying what they love. So, if you love Adventure Time, SpongeBob, Avengers, I was drawing Deadpool growing up when I was a kid. Just get in that play mindset, it's just really like playing with toys or playing with friends or anything. It should really just be present in the moment and let go and just let it flow through you and just have fun at the desk and just don't have any expectations. I think that will always yield the best results because you can always revise things, add on to things, redraw things.
You can't sit down and meditate for five hours on the first try, maybe not ever. You can't play a full basketball game if you've never played before, you have to build up to things.
It’s the idea of “getting the peanut butter on the bread”, just get it all out and see what you've got, come back with fresh eyes, reconfigure it more, walk away, come back with fresh eyes, reconfigure it more. Eventually, you're gonna see something that's exciting. You're going to see a spark. You're going to be inspired and you're going to want to keep doing it. If you're blocked, just try less hard. Just just try to make something bad, don't try to make something good, just try to make something bad. It's not hard. Lots of bad art leads to lots of great art, and practice makes progress.
And that's it! Thank you so much! Enjoy the gummies, and we will see you again soon y’all! Happy 4/20!
Disclaimer: The views and opinions expressed in this interview are those of the guest and do not necessarily reflect the views of Cycling Frog.
